Quoting Akacastor to Shurato <=-

I guess the limiting factor for writing a cross-platform BBS oneliners
and last call doors would be access to the message base. I don't know
how many varieties of message base there would be to support? JAM, Squish, *.MSG?

There was a cross-platform oneliners a few years ago that stored the info
on the interwebz instead of the message base. I wrote a door that worked
with it and the last callers. Much easier then accessing the message
base, but when he shut things down that was the end of it.

Something 100% opensource that worked that way would be better.

Shawn

... Electrician -- Person who wires for money
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There was a cross-platform oneliners a few years ago that stored the info on the interwebz instead of the message base. I wrote a door that worked with it and the last callers. Much easier then accessing the message base, but when he shut things down that was the end of it.

That's an interesting idea. Maybe a 2-part system could work well, with the first part running on a server collecting and distributing oneliners/callers, and the second part being the local integration into a BBS (pulling from the server and displaying to the user).

I guess the server would make sense to have a simple REST API and the clients could send HTTP GET to retrieve the lists. Should be pretty straightforward to implement on both ends.

The second part of the system (local integration into BBS) could be done via whatever scripting the sysop chooses, or an external door (DOS? Win32? OS/2?) could be created. (at least this door wouldn't need access to message bases)

Something I feel like always needs to be asked, because it supports everything - does Synchronet already support something like this? I think they do have a oneliner system at least. Is there any kind of standard to implement for this, before reinventing the wheel?


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
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On 24 Jun 2024, AKAcastor said the following...

I hate having to have a mystic setup to rlogon to
so I can run MRC just to spawn off to run it from my board.

I'm surprised nobody has written a stand-alone MRC door. A DOS MRC door is on my own to-do list, but a bit low on the list at the moment. Too many doors to crack. ;)

OS/2 at least has a network stack exposed directly to the VDMs by default..
but the library and all the stuff to link it together is hard to find. I'm not sure if Windows does (perhaps Windows NT did, as part of the early OS/2 support.. which is long gone after Windows 2000 iirc). Maybe Novell made something to support their old DOS network stack in a Windows VDM?

I know you could use mTCP or something like that, but afaik that would only work on a VM, DosBox type program or a real machine. No Windows users. (and most "DOS" BBSes are just running on Windows. A DOS door implemented this way wouldn't be useful to Exodus for example)

Maybe if the DOS door used named pipes to talk to a proper 32-bit locally-run server that then talked to the MRC server?

I guess what I'm getting at is a DOS network door would see quite limited use and might be difficult to implement/run for the user.

Sorry for blabbing. I just find this stuff interesting.. sort of brain storming stuff. I wrote a Windows MRC door early on but the protocol was so bad at that time I converted it probably 80% of the way to an (unrelased) irc door.. I haven't looked recently but originally any sysop could read all the private messages from every BBS lol

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

On 25 Jun 2024, AKAcastor said the following...

Something I feel like always needs to be asked, because it supports everything - does Synchronet already support something like this? I
think they do have a oneliner system at least. Is there any kind of standard to implement for this, before reinventing the wheel?

i've thought about this and there are a few things that haven't come up because nobody has implemented the other parts. as an imaginary example:

1) synchronet supports an instant messaging system so i decide to implement it for mystic.
2) mystic has a internode messenger of it's own so i inject messages that way, and provide an alternate method for sending them outbound
3) i verify all of the ports needed are open using the synchronet port scanner tool
4) i'm a mystic bbs and can't get on the synchronet bbs list

i'm unsure what else is tied to the synchronet bbs list

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

wouldn't be useful to Exodus for example)

Yeah! I'm included! <G> hahahha

Yeah, you are right ... a Win32 door is what is probably needed, as NetFOSS allows Win32 doors to run in DOS with NFU, so it might be the way to go.

... Let him who understands reckon the number of the Beast.

--- Renegade v1.35α/DOS
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AKAcastor was heard saying....

I guess the server would make sense to have a simple REST API and the clients could send HTTP GET to retrieve the lists. Should be pretty straightforward to implement on both ends.

That's how they did it. I still have the code to my door end of it, it
wasn't difficult to get the info.

via whatever scripting the sysop chooses, or an external door (DOS?
Win32? OS/2?) could be created. (at least this door wouldn't need
access to message bases)

Exactly. I wrote one for DOS that used curl or something to do the
internet bit.



Shawn

--- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Re: food fite
By: AKAcastor to Tiny on Tue Jun 25 2024 10:43 am

Something I feel like always needs to be asked, because it supports everything - does Synchronet already support something like this? I think they do have a oneliner system at least. Is there any kind of standard to implement for this, before reinventing the wheel?

There's this:
https://gitlab.synchro.net/main/sbbs/-/tree/master/xtrn/oneliners

It uses JSON over TCP for shared database stuff.
--
digital man (rob)

This Is Spinal Tap quote #46:
"Not an Exit" - we don't want an exit. Well that's true.
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Re: Re: food fite
By: fusion to AKAcastor on Tue Jun 25 2024 03:54 pm

Maybe if the DOS door used named pipes to talk to a proper 32-bit locally-run server that then talked to the MRC server?

DOS programs don't support named pipes.
--
digital man (rob)

This Is Spinal Tap quote #42:
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On 29 Jun 2024, Digital Man said the following...

Maybe if the DOS door used named pipes to talk to a proper 32-bit locally-run server that then talked to the MRC server?

DOS programs don't support named pipes.

indeed they do. i can open and read from for example

\\.\pipe\something

from a dos pascal program and from what i've tested at least int21/5F35h (DosPeekNmPipe) and 5F33h (DosQNmPHandleState) seem to work to query pipe status

http://www.ctyme.com/intr/int-21.htm

On Windows 7 32-bit. OS/2 works too, but differenly.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

everything - does Synchronet already support
something like this? I think
they do have a oneliner system at least. Is there
any kind of standard to
implement for this, before reinventing the wheel?

There's this: https://gitlab.synchro.net/main/sbbs/-/tree/master/xtrn/oneliners

It uses JSON over TCP for shared database stuff.

Thanks for the link! Eventually I'll learn to check the Synchronet wiki before asking, since the answers are almost always there already. It's a great resource that is appreciated!


Chris/akacastor


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Re: Re: food fite
By: fusion to Digital Man on Mon Jul 01 2024 12:31 am

On 29 Jun 2024, Digital Man said the following...

Maybe if the DOS door used named pipes to talk to a proper 32-bit locally-run server that then talked to the MRC server?

DOS programs don't support named pipes.

indeed they do. i can open and read from for example

\\.\pipe\something

from a dos pascal program and from what i've tested at least int21/5F35h (DosPeekNmPipe) and 5F33h (DosQNmPHandleState) seem to work to query pipe status

http://www.ctyme.com/intr/int-21.htm

On Windows 7 32-bit. OS/2 works too, but differenly.

Well, I'll be, I wouldn't expect that DOS, being a single-tasking OS, to support inter-process communication.

<grabs his MS-DOS programmers guide>

Nope, those pipe functions are *not* present in the supported functions of MS-DOS v4.

And indeed, from your linked reference:
"This function was introduced by LAN Manager but is also supported by the Novell DOS Named Pipe Extender, Banyan VINES, OS/2 Virtual DOS Machines, and others" not [MS/PC]-DOS.

Just because it works in Windows DOS mode, doesn't mean it's supported by DOS. --
digital man (rob)

Steven Wright quote #20:
If Barbie is so popu, why do you have to buy her friends?
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On 03 Jul 2024, Digital Man said the following...

Nope, those pipe functions are *not* present in the supported functions
of MS-DOS v4.

And indeed, from your linked reference:
"This function was introduced by LAN Manager but is also supported by the Novell DOS Named Pipe Extender, Banyan VINES, OS/2 Virtual DOS Machines, and others" not [MS/PC]-DOS.

Yes, so are you mad I didn't preface that with "You could install LAN Manager Client for DOS, Novell network support and use DOSNP.EXE or run inside a VDM using named pipes" ?

First paragraph of https://helparchive.huntertur.net/document/61238 :

"The Communications Server MS-DOS and OS/2 clients use named
pipe connections to communicate with OS/2-based Communications Server computers."

A problem someone was having with named pipes in MS-DOS with DOS LAN Manager

https://library.thedatadungeon.com/msdn-1992-09/kbase/html/kbas5c4h.htm

And a problem using named pipes with Windows 3.11 (interesting symptom for a DOS machine to have)

https://jeffpar.github.io/kbarchive/kb/119/Q119106/

And the manual for MS SQL states the DOS client support uses named pipes too, using a TSR like the Novell one does. I can't find the link anymore but I'm guessing that's why they added those functions to the NTVDM in the first
place (they mentioned it was for DOS Point-of-Sale software).

.. and in any case, you said "DOS programs" don't support named pipes. If you want to say that it isn't technically a DOS program if it uses interrupts
that aren't supported on a plain install of MS-DOS 4, well, sure:

<grabs his MS-DOS programmers guide>

Nope, those pipe functions are *not* present in the supported functions
of MS-DOS v4.

MS-DOS 4 also didn't come with DPMI support. It didn't exist yet.. are those DOS programs or nah? :)

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* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

Re: Re: food fite
By: fusion to Digital Man on Fri Jul 05 2024 03:56 am

Yes, so are you mad I didn't preface that with "You could install LAN Manager Client for DOS, Novell network support and use DOSNP.EXE or run inside a VDM using named pipes" ?

Mad? Not at all. Sorry if I gave that impression.
--
digital man (rob)

Sling Blade quote #12:
Karl (re hammer): I don't rightly know. I just kinda woke up holding it.
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